Image by: cjohnson7 at http://flickr.com/photos/72621973@N00/1460568819
Please see Rob's excellent post and remembrance of Stuart Matis at Scrum Central.
I think it fitting to once again point out the lack of such desperately needed "modern revelation" amongst the Mormon church in regards to the issue of homosexuality. As Rob very astutely points out, the church has been swinging back and forth over this issue for decades. In consideration of the church's posturing amongst other Evangelical and Fundamentalist Christian groups so as to attain some degree of political clout, it is clear to see the church leadership is unwilling to officially pick a side and stick to it.
My devout LDS readers may be further offended, but one with eyes to see and ears to hear can see that in this issue alone the modern revelation channel the church subscribes to does not seem to be working. If it is the Lord's "one and only true church on the face of the earth" why is he not speaking to Mr. Monson, who is charged with speaking to the Lord on this important topic? How many more need to die needlessly before a convenient revelation comes? The heavens were never open to the leaders of the church. This is but another sad chapter in the history of Mormonism. The charisma of Joseph Smith with his quick and creative intellect to generate "revelation" at just the right time are but faded pages in the history of the church.
The issue is a modern equivalent to the conundrum Saints in earlier times felt with regard to polygamy, blacks and the Priesthood, etc. Indeed, the heavens are closed and have been.
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ReplyDeleteThe back and forth way that the Church has approached the issue of homosexuality definitely indicates that rather than speaking the words from heaven, the church leaders are just trying to figure things out as they go...especially when it comes to keeping up the PR. I wish that President Monson would just come forward and definitively state the Church's position on the whole issue...but because that doesn't happen you have Apostles and Seventy running around with conflicting messages for the last fifty years.
ReplyDeleteWhat if it has happened. What if the proclamation of the family is the revelation on the churches take in the current situation. What if it, as an organization, the church supports the family, supports human rights, (as in regards to the workplace, housing, insurances, other discrimanition based on sex. preferance, race, creed, etc.) but does not support the marriage of gays as a family issue? Then, are we back back to complaining about the churches stance?
ReplyDeleteJeff- The proclamation on the family clearly isn't the last word. They have been wrestling with this issue for more than 20 years. If this was the case the leaders would have no problem putting their foot down and saying "thus saith the Lord." We also wouldn't have confusion from the president of the Church. Hinckley himself didn't understand why there are gay people and didn't know what to do with them in the church. The fact that the position of other leaders in the church has ranged from full inclusion to Bruce Hafen's demonizing of homosexuals further illustrates that there is no guidance from within or outside of the church as to the direction and position the church should take. They are still deciding whose bandwagon to hop on - the religious conservatives, or something else.
ReplyDeleteAlso given the rather significant impact of Prop. 8 and the church's involvement in the moral-political arena, they don't want to further jeopardize their position of influence. Mormonism is a religion that is becoming passe in our culture. In order for it to survive they will do as they have always done had have a convenient revelation at just the right time. The more the impact to the pocket book of the church, the sooner it will change.
The church doesn't stomp around as much as you imply. The revelation was a “Thus saith the lord”. To all those who believe that the prophet receives revelation. It may not be the last word, but it is the word. And to think that Bruce Hafen has demonized anything is absurd to all those who have heard him speak or read his words. Clearly you and I differ in this. And in the pocketbook issue. What facts do you have to support the change in church doctrine based on finances?
ReplyDeleteJeff you are apparently a passionate defender of the church. Bless you. Unlike the interpretation of revelations in Mormonism as "subject to future revision" I believe that true revelation from God is everlasting and eternal. Many "unchanging revelations" given to the leaders of the church have indeed changed as social, political, and financial pressures were placed on the church. African Americans and the priesthood could be one such example.
ReplyDeleteAfter reading the transcript of Hafen's rather trite talk at Evergreen filled with deceit and lies about homosexuality I consider the man little more than a liar clearly not called of God. Sorry, but unless you have walked in another's shoes and delt with the anguish of being gay and in the church I can't expect you to understand. Disagree-indeed we do. I was willing to look past the PR smokescreen and see the church for what it really is.
Who is is you expect wont understand your plight? Hafen, or Jeff M or some other reader. Isn't that why we read and wright - to understand and make ouselves understood. If I hear you and don't aggres, did I hear you correctly? Where are you going with this. I think that if we look through and around a PRsmokscreen we will find it does not come form the church. Thant not how the church works generaly. Bruce hafen's talk was king and gently talk to a group who needed gentalaty and kindness. Demond watchers will find those demonds.
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